BSFC Netflix #2.3 & 2.4: Stacey's Emergency / Jessi and the Superbrat

SCOTUS is bad. The BSC is good.

Join us for a 60 minute respite from the flaming dumpster heap that is present-day America as we discuss the 3rd and 4th episodes of season 2 of the Netflix series. This is a marathon, y'all -- humor, critical analysis, and solidarity will help get us through. 

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Transcript

[00:00:00] Brooke: Welcome to the Baby-sitters Fight Club, where the first rule is, you don't talk about Fight Club. Instead, you talk about the battles fought and the lessons learned in The Baby-sitters Club series of books by Ann M. Martin and the corresponding television show on Netflix. I'm Brooke Suchomel, an editor who's revisiting these books after 30 years and watching the second season of the Netflix show for the first time.

[00:00:32] Kaykay: And I'm Kaykay Brady. I'm a therapist and I'm new to the books, kind of new to the series, but we saw last season, at least, so medium new. 

[00:00:42] Brooke: In this episode, we're gonna discuss episodes three and four of the second season of the Netflix series, Stacey's Emergency and Jessi and the Superbrat. 

We'll start with episode three, "Stacey's Emergency." This is book 43, so it's a book that we haven't yet covered on the podcast, so much like we did when we covered the Super Special number two, which was basically reinterpreted as Camp Moosehead in the first season. I'm sure we'll be able to sort of do like a reverse coverage, right? So we'll cover the book and we'll talk about how it differs from what we saw in the episode. So we'll start with the episode with this one.

[00:01:21] Kaykay: We don't have rules here. We're not regular moms. We're cool moms. 

[00:01:25] Brooke: We're so not regular moms that our children are dogs. Like that's how that's how much we have flipped the script. 

[00:01:31] Kaykay: We are not moms. 

[00:01:34] Brooke: Right. We're dog moms. This is what dog moms do, we say, "Fuck it, we do what we want."

All right. So let's start with "Stacey's Emergency." The Netflix description of this episode is, and I quote, "The BSC prepares to rule the runway as Stacey's special guest for a gala fashion show, but a series of concerning symptoms challenge the glitz and glam." End quote. So what else did we get in this episode?

[00:02:04] Kaykay: Well, we get leather pants. I just wanna point that out. Stacey's in leather pants. 

[00:02:11] Brooke: Stacey's outfits are- 

[00:02:13] Kaykay: They're like, I mean, even I can look at those outfits and say somebody serious is putting those together. 

[00:02:20] Brooke: Right. Even Kaykay, like noted fashion icon-

[00:02:25] Kaykay: The biggest dyke in the world. 

[00:02:28] Brooke: Are you wearing a Dollywood t-shirt right now with the sleeves cut off? 

[00:02:34] Kaykay: Yeah, I'm wearing a Dollywood t-shirt that I cut the sleeves off, so it's all like jagged, and I've got like massive side boob. 

[00:02:40] Brooke: And even you are like- 

[00:02:41] Kaykay: That's how I roll! 

[00:02:42] Brooke: You're just like Stacey's teacher. 

[00:02:44] Kaykay: The teacher who was wearing some weird like cat choker.

[00:02:48] Brooke: It's a cat collar. Yeah, the teacher was super thirsty, I thought, in this. The teacher is like fan girling really hard on Stacey. And I thought it was cool cuz it's actually the director of the episode. 

[00:03:04] Kaykay: No! 

[00:03:04] Brooke: Yes. And she's directed numerous episodes of the show. I follow her on Instagram, she seems like she's hella cool. 

[00:03:13] Kaykay: That's so fun, especially because I think we can sort of interpret that as a fangirling for the series coming to life. That's very clever and I love it. So yeah, the outfits, leather pants. 

[00:03:27] Brooke: And the shoulders, I see that as a little nod to the eighties, too. Like anytime I see big shoulders, it's kind of like in the eighties, the shoulders went sideways and now you're seeing the shoulders go vertical, architecturally. They're a little different, and I find it very interesting. 

There is a website called Shop Your TV and you can look up basically any TV show and just go to the episode that you were watching and they will have pictures. So there's pictures of different pieces of clothing, jewelry, whatever, in the show. And then you can see where to buy it, if there's a link for it. 

[00:04:08] Kaykay: That's dope. 

[00:04:09] Brooke: Mm-hmm. 

[00:04:09] Kaykay: Somebody is so smart that put that together. 

[00:04:11] Brooke: There's a couple of them. This is one that I was using the first season that we watched. The whole time, I was like, I want everything that Claudia's wearing. Where the fuck did she get that sick ass bomber jacket? And so I spent a lot of time- 

[00:04:24] Kaykay: I love that bomber jacket. 

[00:04:25] Brooke: Oh, it's just so good. 

[00:04:26] Kaykay: Obviously we need to dress up as the characters one time. Mine's gonna be simpler. All I need is a red visor and all of the rugby shirts I wore in the nineties. I wish I'd saved them. I had all the outfits that Kristy wears. 

[00:04:39] Brooke: I love that we just jumped right into the fashion. So it's like things happened in this, but there's also a lot of fashion because Stacey is, as we said in the description, she's putting on a fashion show. 

[00:04:50] Kaykay: Yeah, it's a gala. 

[00:04:51] Brooke: Right. But I thought it was nice that the fashion show was, we're gonna model these pouches. It's like functional fashion, as opposed to like, it's just about, you know, clothing.

There was a great fashion moment that speaks to what you just said, where at the beginning, Stacey is showing how to do a fishtail braid, which seems like maybe it's like a reverse French braid or something. 

[00:05:16] Kaykay: You know better than I. I'm just gonna step out of this conversation. 

[00:05:19] Brooke: That one, I don't know. But she's braiding hair in the meeting and Mallory is like, "Oh, can you braid my hair next? My hair is outta control." And Kristy just takes her backwards baseball cap and puts it on her head, and she's like, "Here, it's easier." 

[00:05:35] Kaykay: Yes, I was resonating so hard with that. 

[00:05:39] Brooke: There were so many Kristy queer moments in this, like this episode I found to be delightful all around. 

[00:05:46] Kaykay: Me too. 

[00:05:46] Brooke: A big part of why it was extra delightful for me was they just leaned into the queer stuff with Kristy.

[00:05:55] Kaykay: It's so delicious too, because you know, we've said this before, how the book sometimes gives Kristy liberty to be Kristy, but most of the time is kind of interpreting it as like babyishness or, you know, something that will be changed eventually. 

And it's just so delicious to have Kristy in the show just be Kristy, nothing wrong with it. You know, it's like every character has their different style. Nobody judges it, nobody tells 'em they need to look different. So it's just, Ugh, I'm loving it. 

[00:06:24] Brooke: Yeah. I thought it was cool that you see when she's in her room at night, all by herself, she's looking up on YouTube the tutorials for the braid, though, where she's just kind of like, should I check this out? So she's like dipping a toe. 

[00:06:37] Kaykay: Yeah. You know, I can see her rocking a braid. 

[00:06:39] Brooke: Did that speak to you where she's kind of like, okay, well this is something that the other girls were doing. I don't really naturally, it's not really my style, my jam, but maybe I should try it to see what it's like, sort of like put that on.

And then when Dawn FaceTimes with her, while she's doing it, Dawn sees that she's got like a little braid sort of thing going, and she's like, "What are you doing with your hair?" And Kristy just throws the hat back on and is like, "Karen was messing with my hair." You know, like, "Me? Watching a YouTube video on how to braid my hair? Never. Couldn't be me." 

[00:07:16] Kaykay: Well, in my case, it really couldn't have been me, because I would've never spent even one nanosecond considering what to do with my hair. You know, like I had football games to play. I had Cagney and Lacey to watch, I had Nintendo Paperboy to play. There was no time on the docket for fucking round with my hair, sorry. 

[00:07:35] Brooke: Right. 

[00:07:35] Kaykay: If like we had been at a sleepover and you had agreed to do a fishtail braid on me, I would've let you. It's like drag, you know? Sure, if I have a friend with the knowledge, I'm happy to play drag in that moment, but am I gonna sit and figure it out? Absolutely not. 

[00:07:50] Brooke: I'm looking at your hair right now thinking about how I could it braid it. 

[00:07:55] Kaykay: We should describe my hair. It's basically a very butch undercut, shaved on the sides with like two inches of pompadour on the top. 

[00:08:04] Brooke: How hilarious would it be if there was just a little braid- oh, oh my God. It's almost like a rat tail, but for your pompadour, in the back. 

[00:08:11] Kaykay: Well, some people do that and I did have the queer sort of fauxhawk. 

[00:08:14] Brooke: Right. 

[00:08:15] Kaykay: You could have braided that and put like a bead on it. That I would've loved. 

[00:08:19] Brooke: Now I'm strategizing. Right now, I'm like doing the geometry in my head at this very moment about where I could fit this braid in. So if we make that happen, we will update back here. 

[00:08:31] Kaykay: Yeah. Only you could pull that off. And I was thinking about how if I had discovered an undercut at that age, then I would've figured out hair stuff. You know, because if you need somebody to maintain your undercut between going to barbers, I can definitely do that. So like, if that had been available to me then, then I would've probably explored hair. 

[00:08:50] Brooke: Well, there's something to that, right? Where it's like, when you gender an interest, when it's like, for girls to be interested in hair, they have to be interested in stereotypical, like girly hair hairstyles, like long, et cetera, you know?

If you're not interested in that, then this entire area is cut off to you. You're like, oh, hair is not for me because hair is long, and I don't want that. So it's not for me. Whereas if you're just like, hair's whatever you want it to be, then anyone can be interested in it. 

[00:09:22] Kaykay: It's so funny that you say that because in the last five years, since I've really kind of settled into my kind of gender queer presentation, where I consider myself gender nonconforming. I typically dress more like a male presenting person. And I have to say, I'm so much more interested in clothes and hair. I'm finally like, oh! You know, cuz I like suits and I like button downs and I'm like dreaming of getting a custom three piece suit. 

I have never dreamt of getting any piece of clothing in my entire life. And all of a sudden I'm like, oh, I would love to get something nice for like a wedding. And I could like shine my shoes and like wear a nice watch. So once I'm allowed to have my real gender presentation, I'm interested in it. But as a kid, I just felt like I don't like clothes. I don't like hair. That stuff is all stupid because it was being forced on me as a particular gender presentation.

[00:10:11] Brooke: Right. As you're saying that I'm smiling, cuz I'm just realizing it's been about that long since you asked me to go shopping with you to help you pick out clothes.

[00:10:22] Kaykay: You mean for our friends' wedding? 

[00:10:23] Brooke: Or for like when you would have like business trips and things like that. 

[00:10:27] Kaykay: Yes. 

[00:10:27] Brooke: And you took a promotion and you were like, "Now I have to get a new wardrobe. I'm in business, so they have certain expectations. It's not my thing at all. Can you come help me?" And it was just like, "Yeah, sure. Happy to do that." But I'm just realizing we haven't had that conversation in a very long time and I'm so happy that I haven't, you know what I mean? Like, I'm always happy to help. Again, if you ever are like, "I want to play with braids in my pompadour," girl, you call me. 

[00:11:00] Kaykay: Oh, you are the best friend. 

[00:11:01] Brooke: But- 

[00:11:01] Kaykay: You're a hundred percent right. That's exactly what that was, was like, I had the pressure to conform to a gender expression that didn't feel comfortable at all. And so I didn't have any interest or knowledge. And I was like, my girl Brooke could hook me up, you know, cuz she has the interest and the knowledge and I can like lean on that. But since I've discovered my own, it's like, nobody needs to tell me, I just find what I like and I make it happen. 

[00:11:27] Brooke: Yeah. Because now, I mean, all of the time I'm like, "Oh my God, I love that shirt. Where did you get that shirt?" and so like you are pointing me in the direction of like, where you got your swimsuit, you know?

[00:11:40] Kaykay: Yeah. We should tell the listeners that I wear sort of like a strong man, what do you call it?

[00:11:44] Brooke: It's very like 1920s. It's awesome, yeah. 

[00:11:49] Kaykay: Well that was another thing where I was like, what do I do for a bathing suit? I don't wanna wear, like I thought about the Kristy Speedo, which is what I did as a kid, but I was like, eh, that just feels like some weird stop gap. And then I looked up gender nonconforming swimsuit. Boom. It was these awesome, it's like a singlet, almost like a wrestling singlet. 

[00:12:11] Brooke: And you get like these button downs with like the coolest patterns. And I'm like, "Oh my God, where did you get that," you know? So even for me, there's so many more clothes that I find, that I want. As somebody who is more gender conforming in appearance, if perhaps not in personality, that is really exciting for me too. 

Because now that people are, at least in some circles, it's more acceptable to present yourself as you choose and throw gender out the window and just be like, okay, I'm not gonna worry about, I'm a quote unquote woman. I have to wear this. And if I was a man, then I could wear that. It's like, okay, what if none of those things were a thing whatsoever? What if everybody just had to like cover their body in the way that they choose? What would that look like? 

[00:13:00] Kaykay: Cool shit. 

[00:13:01] Brooke: Cool shit! 

[00:13:02] Kaykay: That's what it looks like. 

[00:13:02] Brooke: What's the name, Gender Free World or something? Is that the name of the store where you get a lot of stuff? 

[00:13:07] Kaykay: Yeah. I get pretty much all of my work shirts from Gender Free World. They have dope patterns and they also have six different kinds of sizes for like all body types and gender presentations. You know, cuz mostly button downs are for like tall, thin bodies. 

[00:13:21] Brooke: Button downs are usually for like A cups. 

[00:13:24] Kaykay: Or made for a male presenting body, and then just made a little bit bigger somewhere. 

[00:13:29] Brooke: Where it's like, oh, do you have any semblance of a chest?

[00:13:32] Kaykay: Oh, forget it. 

[00:13:33] Brooke: Hope you are happy wearing your button down half open because we're not accommodating you. 

[00:13:39] Kaykay: Right. You didn't wanna cover these breasts, did you? 

[00:13:41] Brooke: Oh exactly. It's like, oh, you can dress like a man if you want to, but you gotta show us your tits. You know? And it's like, fuck you, dude! I just wanna wear a cool button down! 

[00:13:52] Kaykay: Yeah. And in fact, these button downs, they have an extra button that you can't see over the breasts. 

[00:13:59] Brooke: That's so great.

[00:14:00] Kaykay: They know exactly where the gap is and the button is where the gap comes. 

[00:14:03] Brooke: So brilliant. We're not sponsored by Gender Free World, but I wouldn't turn one down.

[00:14:08] Kaykay: I love them so much. I just would send anyone to them. I just got a shirt with mermen on it last week. Sorry, merpeople. They don't call it mermen, they call it merpeople.

[00:14:17] Brooke: So cool. Yeah, cuz it's good for everybody because even if you are generally able to find the kind of clothing that suits you, that is readily available to you in stores, opening up additional options benefits everybody.

And so that's why I love in this episode too, where Stacey says in the Baby-sitters Club, "Okay, I have been nominated to be this youth ambassador for the Juvenile Diabetes Research Fund. So I'm gonna be appearing at a gala for it. One of the things that we're gonna do is a fashion show to show off pouches to carry your insulin pump and any sort of necessities that you might need, and I would love for you all to be models in the fashion show." 

And Kristy is like, "Are you fucking kidding me? Absolutely not. Under no circumstances am I going to be a model." And then Stacey is like, "But it's for a good cause. Please?" And Kristy's like, "Okay, fine. But I am not wearing a dress." And it's just like fine, no problem. And she shows up in some like Annie Hall attire looking fresh as hell. 

[00:15:28] Kaykay: Fresh as fuck. 

[00:15:29] Brooke: And it's not a big fucking deal. Like, let people wear what they wanna wear. Who cares? I love that. 

[00:15:34] Kaykay: Yeah. Elliot Page just had this article come out, I think in Vanity Fair. And he has all these people coming up to him now saying, "I'm so sorry I made you wear a dress. I didn't know. I didn't know that you were trans." And he's like, what the fuck does it matter? Like, even if I wasn't trans people should be able to wear what they want. Why is this all of a sudden now you get it, you know? 

[00:15:54] Brooke: Right. I am a cis hetero female- taking a bold stand here as a cis hetero female. Look at me being brave in my truth. But like, I have a hard time finding stuff because I don't wanna wear like mini skirts. 

[00:16:10] Kaykay: Is that right? 

[00:16:11] Brooke: Oh my God no, absolutely not. No, I don't want that. And so even if you're like a cis female, you can still be really limited in your options when it's like, okay, if you wanna wear a dress, here's what's available to you.

And especially in the summer, if you've gotta go buy a dress, it's sleeveless and it's mini. I remember even looking for a wedding dress, trying to find something that wasn't strapless, because it's like, we decided that this is what- and I'm like, oh my God, fuck that.

Just let people wear whatever the fuck they wanna wear. If a dude wants to wear a dress? Who fucking cares! Why do we care? It's so weird. It's so weird. 

[00:16:47] Kaykay: This is my favorite thing about college. The college that I went to, the only people that wore dresses were dudes. I kid you not. 

[00:16:53] Brooke: You absolutely went to a liberal arts college, just in case anybody wasn't aware. 

[00:16:58] Kaykay: It was dudes in these long floral things to the ground and like hoodies. God, I loved it. That was the only dresses you saw, sorry. 

[00:17:06] Brooke: In case you couldn't tell that Kaykay went to a liberal arts college in the nineties, now you know. 

[00:17:12] Kaykay: Out in the woods in the east coast, there you go. 

[00:17:16] Brooke: Oh, I love it. 

[00:17:17] Kaykay: I love where we landed. But your original question is, what else happened in the book- 

[00:17:21] Brooke: As we talk about fashion.

[00:17:22] Kaykay: Besides leather pants, thank God. We also have the plot of possibly Kristy's mom and stepdad wanting to have a baby, although she's not sure. She's told by, it's Claudia that tells her, right? 

[00:17:35] Brooke: No, it's Dawn. Because Dawn's mom comes over and is having a little coffee talk with Kristy's mom. They're talking about like how things are going in the relationships, and she mentions that they're thinking about possibly trying to have a baby. You know, but she's concerned about at her age, whether or not it's even possible. And then Dawn's mom talks about this fertility goddess statue that she has, that she can borrow or something like that. 

[00:18:05] Kaykay: God, Dawn's mom is the shit.

[00:18:06] Brooke: She's a trip. But she, well, we know at least in the book Dawn's mom is very obviously ADHD, like classic ADHD symptoms, which I think is really cool. It makes me wonder if anybody in Ann M's life has been diagnosed with ADHD as a woman ever since then. 

[00:18:22] Kaykay: Yeah. 

[00:18:22] Brooke: Because it's all of these things that now, as somebody who was diagnosed as ADHD at the age of 40, you know, realizing there's a whole segment of us that are like, all of these things that were quote unquote "problems" for us growing up, it's like, oh no, no, this is just how this condition expresses itself in different people, and particularly in women. 

One of those hallmarks can be impulsivity. And you see that come out when apparently she tells Dawn what Kristy's mom had told her, but it gets reinterpreted in the telephone game, perhaps, as her mom is pregnant. She's not. Dawn blames that on the fact that her mom had three kombuchas that day, so got a little rowdy. 

[00:19:07] Kaykay: Oh, I clocked the kombucha. I stole it for a Modern Moment.

[00:19:10] Brooke: Same, same. So check one Modern Moment there. 

[00:19:13] Kaykay: Yes. 

[00:19:14] Brooke: But I really really loved this, because there's a whole bunch of things that are at play in this other plot where Dawn tells Kristy thinking, oh, this is something that, you know, Kristy just hasn't mentioned and she's so excited about, then Kristy is like, oh my gosh, my mom hasn't told me this. Does she think that I won't be happy? 

Like, there's concern about communication, but she's not mad. She like understands why perhaps her mom wouldn't tell her cuz she would think that she would be mad. And so she's like, how can I express to my mom that I'm fine with this?

And then you also get Kristy's mom with her concern about, my body can't do things now that it used to be able to do, or that it's easier for other people to do. Like she's, you know, thinking about what her, you know, would be considered advanced maternal age, the impact that that has on the possibility of her to actually get pregnant.

And so fertility concerns being juxtaposed with Stacey's concerns, you know, where she says at the end, how having diabetes is really hard for her, and she can get jealous because her friend's bodies can just do things that her body cannot do without a ton of assistance, which is also a big feeling when you go through fertility treatments.

And I can say that as somebody who went through them. You're trying, your body is just not cooperating and that can be extremely frustrating. And it also then is something that you oftentimes feel like you can't really talk about with somebody else, because if you even bring up the fact that you're going through this, and this is something that Kristy's mom says to Kristy, if you even bring this up to people, they can like get their hopes up, it can become a big topic of conversation for me. 

I never wanted to talk about it. I didn't wanna talk about it cuz it was frustrating and it was something that I was just kinda like, you just need to get through it and you don't wanna dwell on it. So I really liked how you kind of see both sides of like a 13 year old girl and the struggles that she's having with her body, and Kristy's mom, who's likely in her forties, and her feeling like, oh wow, now I'm having these struggles with my body as well.

[00:21:39] Kaykay: Yeah, I totally agree. I thought it was such a cool subplot and I love that Stacey's diabetes and Kristy's mom's pregnancy are all kind of filtered or interpreted through a real awareness of ableism. And they even call it out really specifically. And certainly this word wouldn't have been used in the eighties, but, you know, people are really getting a better understanding of how our entire culture is ableist.

And even the fact that this show calls out the pressures that Stacey is experiencing as a person with a disease, right? So like she feels pressure to be even more perfect. She has to be some sort of poster child, because of the shame and blame that our society puts on people that have diseases, and like every disease is just your own fault or something. And so I thought that was beautiful. 

And also just the way that you're seeing her perspective on what it feels like to just not be able to take health completely for granted, which able bodied people temporarily get to do. And I remember the first time someone in a meeting called that out as a privilege, they said being "temporarily able bodied," and I was just like, whoa. 

[00:22:51] Brooke: Yeah, we will all be, you live out a full human lifespan, you will be disabled. You will be. 

[00:22:59] Kaykay: Correct. And what a beautiful thing that this show is taking some steps towards calling out the ableism that is so rampant in our culture, I thought that was really beautiful. And also, you know, the kind of "yes and"-ness of, yes, you can care for yourself in every way that is possible, and it's still gonna suck, and you're still gonna have bad days. 

You don't have complete control of this. None of us has complete control of our bodies and that gets more true as you get older, which you see from Kristy's mom, right?

[00:23:32] Brooke: Yep. 

[00:23:33] Kaykay: You just can't take for granted anymore that everything you're gonna want your body to do, it's gonna do. And like what a beautiful thing. It's so hard for me to think of any other shows that are even dealing with ableism. So, you know, two paws up from me. 

[00:23:46] Brooke: Yeah. And the way that it gets called out explicitly as ableism is right at the very beginning, right? Stacey starts off in her intro to the episode, talking about- the opening line hit me pretty hard, cuz it's something that I think about all the time when she's like, "My dad once told me that middle school is the worst time in anyone's life and that he wouldn't do it again for a million dollars," and fucking word, Stacey's dad, like never, never, never. 

But she talks about how it actually hasn't been so bad for her, because it started out really rough when she was, in her words, in sixth grade, she was run out of Manhattan by a crew of ableist bullies, and then landed in Stoneybrook and has found a group of friends who really support her, so that has made everything so much better. 

And she talks about like what she learns from her friends. So just the whole framing of it, again, it continues to be so healthy and something that like, oh God, I wish I would've had this as a kid. I wish I would've had this as a kid. 

[00:24:47] Kaykay: Same, same. And also the tension between Stacey and Claudia was really interesting. You know, Stacey is tired, irritable, and Claudia knows that these are symptoms of some erratic blood sugar. So she's kind of like softly trying to make some space for it. And Stacey really kind of resents it as it's happening. Like, this is under control, get off my back kind of thing. 

And Claudia doesn't react, doesn't push back or anything. She just kind of thoughtfully listens and tries to stay present and tries to keep being there for her friend. And then in the end they're able to kind of connect and Stacey's able to say, you know, "I'm sorry that I reacted that way. It's just so hard to be sick." 

[00:25:32] Brooke: Yeah. 

[00:25:32] Kaykay: And like, Claudia's able to take that in like a loving, intentional manner. How beautiful! There's no fighting, like, "Fuck you, Stacey. I'm just trying to help you. What's wrong with you," you know? 

[00:25:43] Brooke: Yeah, Claudia is very much like, this is something that she's going through. Like you can tell she's been there with her before through this and it's kind of like a, this will pass. And I think that the reason why she's able to sort of breathe through it is because Stacey, at the end, she owns up to it. 

She's like, I'm really sorry. This is what happens when my blood sugar gets really- she just explains herself. She doesn't excuse herself, but she explains herself, apologizes and reasserts how much she cares about and values her friends. And really, that's all that you can ask for, you know?

[00:26:18] Kaykay: Yeah, exactly. And it's just a good example of, you know, friendship, friends sticking together and like giving each other, the grace and the latitude to have good days and bad, you know? 

[00:26:29] Brooke: Yeah. You know, as you were talking about how so much of this is focusing on, like we've talked a lot about in the past, how there is this sort of wellness culture of, if you are unwell, it's your own fault. Everything is under your control. If something is wrong in your life, it's because of something that you have done, and so here's what you have to do to fix it. Kind of speaking to Dawn's mom with like-

[00:26:52] Kaykay: It's the personal responsibility propaganda. 

[00:26:55] Brooke: And where like, the woo-woo can come in, right? With like the, oh, all you need is this fertility goddess statue, and that will solve the problem. 

[00:27:02] Kaykay: Have some more kombucha. 

[00:27:03] Brooke: And then Stacey is the flip side of that, where she's very regimented, and if I just do literally everything perfectly, monitor everything, you know, then that will be fine. She says that she always saw her disease as like a math equation that she thought if she could just figure it out, she would be okay. There's a lot of judgment about diabetes. 

[00:27:26] Kaykay: Yeah. 

[00:27:26] Brooke: There's a ton of like, oh, it's your own fault. It must be something that you ate. It must be something that you can't control yourself, and so if you just did blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, then the problem would be solved. 

And you're seeing Stacey doing blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and the problem is not solved, because it's not a math equation. It's not just do X, Y, and Z, and you'll be fine. And actually, there are very few things in this life that are math equations, besides math equations. 

Like, you know, math equations in and of themselves are models. It's giving you a model of the world and that can vary based on different circumstances, right? Not to say that- 

[00:28:04] Kaykay: Definitely. 

[00:28:05] Brooke: You know what I mean. I'm not saying, "Is math real? Math isn't real, man." Like, that's not where I'm going, but- 

[00:28:13] Kaykay: I might go there. 

[00:28:15] Brooke: Yeah, keep us on long enough. 

[00:28:15] Kaykay: This might be a simulation. Who knows? Yeah, you're totally right. And then, you know, the idea that believing that things are a math equation and believing that people suffering is their own fault keeps you safe, keeps you believing that it's never gonna happen to you because you're doing all the right things. 

When in fact, a lot of our health is just the privilege of being born into privileged spaces, right? And so being able to say, "Well, I have my privilege because I eat kale," versus like, "because I'm a cis fucking white woman living in the west," you know?

[00:28:52] Brooke: Right. 

[00:28:53] Kaykay: "I have access to water and clean air." It gives people this sense of control and this sense of, "I deserve all of the goodness that I get," but it shuts them off from the humanity of others. And then it also bites them in the ass when they get sick, which, we're all gonna get sick, right? 

[00:29:10] Brooke: Mm-hmm.

[00:29:10] Kaykay: So I really worry about people that are like, their religion is wellness. What happens when they're dying? How is that religion of wellness going to help you, that doesn't teach you to accept any of your human frailties or have compassion for other people's human frailties? What are you gonna do?

[00:29:30] Brooke: I think we can see it right now with the way that wellness communities have been radicalized in the pandemic. You know? 

[00:29:36] Kaykay: Whoa! 

[00:29:37] Brooke: I think you really see it. 

[00:29:38] Kaykay: Whoa, you're blowing my mind. 

[00:29:41] Brooke: Mm-hmm. You know, this sort of cult of wellness that we've been built around, where the secret to health and wellbeing is like, self care, and self care as being divorced from community care.

You're a self, but you're a self in a community and you can't shut that off. And there's other things at play. And so it just, I think it shattered a lot of people's worldview that was based on a misperception that was intentionally cultivated to sell people shit. And here we are. It's not great. 

I think if we all had that mentality and I love that point of, if you are able bodied- first of all, I don't think that there's anyone on this planet that is able bodied in every way. There are things that people just either don't know or don't wanna face. Everybody has a limitation. 

But if whatever your limitations are, are minor or restricted or not visible enough, that it doesn't have a significant impact on your daily life, for you to know that that is a moment in time that is not going to stay that way. If you had that mentality of, this is brief, this won't be like this forever, I will be the other someday, we would all be so much kinder to one another and live in a much better world. 

[00:30:56] Kaykay: Yeah, and all of a sudden, the compassion that you're capable of is, well, first of all, it's fearful at first, right? 

[00:31:01] Brooke: Right. 

[00:31:01] Kaykay: That's a terrifying and frightening concept. But once you process that emotion, on the other side? Compassion. 

[00:31:07] Brooke: Yeah. And that's what I love in this TV show. There's so much compassion in this TV show. 

[00:31:12] Kaykay: It's like bottomless pit of compassion. Completely agree. 

[00:31:16] Brooke: Even in the people that are, we'll get into this when we talk about episode four, even the people that are playing the role of an antagonist, cuz you've always gotta have an antagonist. You don't have a story without an antagonist. And the antagonist doesn't have to be a person, but it has to exist. Even the antagonists have humanity and care. 

[00:31:34] Kaykay: Yes. 

[00:31:35] Brooke: And they're treated that way because nobody sees themselves as an antagonist. Everybody is a protagonist in their own life. 

[00:31:42] Kaykay: And also, hurt people hurt people. I mean, that is such a cheesy phrase, but I love it because it has so much truth to it. 

[00:31:49] Brooke: Yeah. I love how like there's no villains really in this series. There's just people who are perhaps not operating at their best. Because to be honest, if we were to say, you have to have a villain, every story has to have a villain, I'd say diabetes in this would be the villain. But if you said that it had to be personified in a character, it would be Stacey because she's the one that is harsh to her friends. 

We know that she's not though, she's not a villain. She's just a person having a hard time with a lot of internal pressure, and she's like so committed to always being at her best, always being perfect. The doctor is like, "Oh, you're Type I and Type A." So it's very much like, "I got this." And Mallory says that, where it's like, "Stacey 1, diabetes 0." That's the mentality.

[00:32:40] Kaykay: Yes, and that mentality creates a pressure, exactly. And I also loved the way that it did sort of subtly call into question that cultural story too, of a lot of animosity towards disease, and how there's probably benefits to that, and there can be limitations to that. You know, it, it could become a pressure on you. 

Like, you have to win, win, like what the fuck does that mean? And you're not always gonna win. That doesn't mean you're a loser, right? 

[00:33:05] Brooke: Yes. 

[00:33:05] Kaykay: So this cultural narrative we have about disease can be really problematic. I also thought about the ways that the intersectional pieces of Stacey's identity, like her whiteness, also are part of this, right? Like the white need for perfection, to sort of be put together at all times, they didn't really explicitly like call that out. But I don't know, I kind of felt it. 

You know, I felt like they were playing with all the pieces of her identity that might be creating this pressure to be perfect. And also like a female, a female identified person, the pressures that females feel to be perfect.

[00:33:42] Brooke: Oh yeah. As we had talked about in our episode on Jessi's Baby-sitter, book 36, where we talked about how, it was brief, but at the end Aunt Cecilia talked about the pressure that she feels. Where it's like, you know, as a black person, you have to work so much harder to get ahead. And it's different, I'm not equating the same, again, it's intersectional.

It's where you can find where there's similar struggles in different groups. And, you know, it's the same thing as a woman. You just don't get the same amount of leeway that men do, particularly when you're looking at positions of visibility and power and influence. If you're a woman, you are not gonna get any slack.

And we know that. Like, you feel that. And so she absolutely would feel that too, especially coming from, you know, the Manhattan circles where she came from before. Like, she's been rejected. She's been sort of turned out of her community before and she's not gonna let that happen again. So that feeling of that need to control is really a dominant force for her.

And I saw that carry through to the next episode too. I don't know if you saw that as sort of the theme. 

[00:34:56] Kaykay: Definitely. The themes were very similar. 

[00:34:59] Brooke: Mm-hmm. So the second episode is "Jessi and the Superbrat." 

[00:35:04] Kaykay: I also loved this fuckin' episode!

[00:35:07] Brooke: This was a good one. 

[00:35:07] Kaykay: This show is so good! 

[00:35:09] Brooke: Yeah. So the description from Netflix is quote, "Passion meets persistence as Jessi struggles with a rough patch in her ballet career, all while signing on to babysit a pint sized vlogging superstar."

And there are some significant differences in what we saw in the book, right? So this has been- like the premise itself is the same in the whole, in the book, Jessi was also disillusioned with her ballet career as it were and was babysitting Derek Masters, who in the book was an actor in a sitcom whose show was on hiatus.

And so he was back in Stoneybrook going back to school at Stoneybrook Elementary, et cetera. And so Jessi was babysitting him in that as well, so that is consistent. But there were some pretty significant differences too. 

You know, we mentioned that the feeling of battling for control, battling to, you know, be the best that that was a consistent theme. What else jumped out at you about this episode, the fourth episode of season 2? 

[00:36:17] Kaykay: I just thought it was such a brilliant adaptation of the themes of the book in a modern context, you know, the way that they have had him be a TikTok sensation doing unboxing videos. And, you know, he calls himself, he's branded as Superbrat. So he has like a personal brand, which is so modern, right? 

[00:36:37] Brooke: Mm-hmm. 

[00:36:37] Kaykay: And there's even a logo, which is the Superman font with "Superbrat," and I just thought, how clever. 

[00:36:44] Brooke: And it's a clever nod to those who know the original source material too. Because in the book, the superbrat, at least the superbrat as Jessi for the majority of the book understands it to be, is John, who is this bully at school who is constantly picking on Derek and, you know, basically making his life back in Stoneybrook untenable.

And it turns out, actually, that was Derek. John-Derek. Derek was doing the things that he said John was doing to him, he was doing it to other kids. We weren't stoked about the book, at all. This was also the book where Jessi decides that she's gonna be a model and is reaching out as an 11 year old to modeling agencies on her own, the parents are just like, "Have fun," you know, not intervening in any way. 

And the moral of the story was basically, you're on your own, and so your best bet is to placate, your bullies, which we didn't like. And I think we got a very different interpretation of it here, but I thought it was interesting that it was like, Derek is the superbrat because in the book you find out he is, too.

[00:38:04] Kaykay: You're blowing my mind, it's like the persona has been literalized. 

[00:38:09] Brooke: Yeah. 

[00:38:10] Kaykay: And also, what a statement, and what a send up of the personal brand, too. Because you know, in what ways is that trapping him from being who he actually is? Which is what the primary tension of this episode is. 

[00:38:26] Brooke: Completely. Cuz he said that the whole reason why he has this career, like he wouldn't have remembered a time before this, because the Superbrat came from a viral video that he was in when he was a toddler. He was pretending to be like a super villain, and it sounds like his dad took that and uploaded it and got a ton of traction. You know, this is like "Charlie bit my finger" or something like that. I'm dating myself, but you know where it's just like- 

[00:38:54] Kaykay: "It's fucking Chucky!" You ever see that one? 

[00:38:57] Brooke: Probably. 

[00:38:58] Kaykay: You haven't seen Chucky? Okay, you gotta go look that. 

[00:39:01] Brooke: So he doesn't know anything different. He was cast in this role of quote unquote "Superbrat" when he was just like a two year old playing, and now that's who he is. And like, he's not allowed to play. He has to just be working all the time.

And that's juxtaposed with Jessi's mom being like, "Whatever happened to being a kid with memories that are private?" Why does everything have to be like, you're not a kid, you're like a public figure, you know, with a job? Jessi's mom is very much like, "Be a kid," which I thought was very nice and refreshing.

[00:39:38] Kaykay: Yes. They definitely give Jessi's mom a lot of the voice of just, Hey, what's going on here? You know? 

[00:39:46] Brooke: Mm-hmm. 

[00:39:46] Kaykay: Just kind of breaking through a lot of what's happening to get to the values underneath. So I thought, you know, in terms of what they were fighting in this episode, I definitely felt they were fighting to like, hang onto their values amidst the kind of celebrity desire which is clearly shown to be a kind of secondary motivation to real feelings that are happening, right? 

For Chaz, the dad, he's insecure as a single dad, and he's worried about making it as a single dad. And Superbrat has been, you know, a way to make him feel less outta control, less alone. But it's, Jessi's mom who's able to just really cut through it and be like, "No, Jessi, these are your values." 

[00:40:32] Brooke: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I had something similar. I had that what they were fighting in this one was this pressure to impress, to be the best. Jessi really got away from her initial love of dancing, which was "I dance cuz I love to dance," not "I dance because it's what I'm good at. I wanna be famous, be the best, and I need to be the best at something." 

You know, she said at the beginning, there was a really good quote, I thought, that I wrote down right away because I think it's something that we could all think about in whatever way this makes sense for us. But she said, "Had I been the best because I love to dance? Or did I love to dance because I'd been the best?"

So she's trying to think about what her motivation is. When you take anything that you love and it sort of takes over your life and becomes like a job, you can lose your love for it if you don't take the time to reconnect with what you fell in love with in the first place. 

[00:41:30] Kaykay: Mm-hmm. 

[00:41:30] Brooke: As I'm talking like, oh, and that's the same thing with people too, right? Like, you could get just so caught up in a thing that it becomes routine and it can drain the excitement, and your initial enthusiasm can get depleted and it can lead you to question things. 

And at the end, she rediscovers her love for dance when she and Derek- they're both like, not in a good space in one of her sitting jobs. Derek says his views are down and he heard his dad talking to his manager about the mortgage.

And you can see like, he's feeling a ton of pressure and is really concerned. And he's like, "Oh, we just gotta go. Let's film. We gotta film something." And she talks about how she saw that he had the weight of the world on his shoulders, but that one of the reasons why she loves ballet is because it makes you feel weightless. It's like it's lifting that weight from your shoulders. 

So she just starts doing little ballet jumps. She's like, "Come on, do it, do it." And so she's just like, they're jumping, they're jumping, they're jumping and now they're having fun. And then she's like, "What do you wanna do? If you could do anything in the world right now, what do you wanna do?" And he's like, "I wanna eat ice cream." "Great, let's eat ice cream." 

So it's like, take yourself out of the, here is the things that I have to do in order to do X, Y, Z, again, that sort of control the like, how Stacey has a math equation for her health, you know, Derek and Jessi have these math equations for their performance careers, and they've sort of become that. 

And it's like, well, what if you step away and you just tap into your body, and you figure out what you need in this moment, and you indulge that? And that helps her reinvigorate her love for dance, and she remembers that the reason she got into dance in the first place is because, Modern Moment, "that old song 'Always Be My Baby' came on the radio." It made me feel very old. 

[00:43:30] Kaykay: Uh, wait, which- I didn't know which song she was talking about. 

[00:43:32] Brooke: It's a Mariah Carey song. It's from like '95, maybe. 

[00:43:36] Kaykay: Oh shoot! You know, the reason I couldn't is cuz I was thinking of a song from the fifties.

[00:43:40] Brooke: No. Sorry, kiddo. It's our music as oldies now. I know. 

[00:43:46] Kaykay: Oh, I get it. Oh, I get it, this is like when I had a client who I was like, "How was your weekend?" She was like, "Oh, it was good. I watched some old movies with my mom." I was like, "Oh, like what?" She goes, "She's All That." 

[00:43:59] Brooke: Oh God. 

[00:44:01] Kaykay: I think she was gonna say like, Casablanca. I was like- 

[00:44:04] Brooke: Nope! 

[00:44:04] Kaykay: I'm old. 

[00:44:05] Brooke: We're old. We're old. 

[00:44:08] Kaykay: Treasure of the Sierra Madre? No, She's All That. The classic Turner movie, She's All That. 

[00:44:16] Brooke: So that is what makes it possible for her to deal with the fact that she is not the best at her new school, because when you level up in the competition, there's a reason you've leveled up. Like, unless you are literally the best person on the planet at this thing, which only one person can be, so it's a numbers game, that person is probably not you. Maybe it is, but highly, highly, highly unlikely. 

And so when it becomes not, "I'm doing this to be the best," but "I'm doing this because I love it," that's when you're like, okay, then it's worth it. Because if you are just doing something to be the best, you just shouldn't do it.

But if you're doing something because you love it and you just wanna keep on getting better at it, then it's worth it. And I mean, Jessi's mom says that to her. When Jessi is like, "I'm gonna quit ballet," because she didn't get the lead role, "and I'm gonna put all of my time into establishing my online presence," per the recommendation of Chaz and Derek, you know?

And she's like, "Absolutely not, you're not quitting ballet," which in and of itself, if it would've ended there, would've been problematic. But she says, "You wanna quit ballet because you don't like it? Fine. But not because you didn't get what you want when you wanted it." So it's that reframing. "I want instant gratification out of a skill that people develop that skill over decades."

And if you're like, "I don't just have it handed to me, I'm gonna quit," that's not cool, if you still love it. She sort of like resets the motivation. And then when she's doing, you know, her icicle dance, she notices that the girl who got the lead role, she's backstage and she's like, she's really fucking good. She's like, she's crushing it out here. 

She's accepting the fact that she's surrounded by people, many of whom are better than her, and that's not an attack on her. That's a good thing. You're surrounded by people who are good at what they do and who love what they do! If you're not the best person, that's fine, you can benefit from that. And so you see her like rediscover her love and it was lovely. 

[00:46:26] Kaykay: So lovely. And also a great exploration of the tension between social and individual or personal, which is very interesting when you think about the Superbrat is on social media. 

[00:46:42] Brooke: Mm-hmm. 

[00:46:43] Kaykay: And also, there's quite a bit of body wisdom in this episode, of like listening to your body and finding joy in movement in your body, and the way that social pressures can subsume that. And like, you do have to fight back and assert yourself, what you want.

And I have to say, being a therapist to kids in this age range in this time, it's really something, the way that social media has completely, for a lot of kids, subsumed their own thoughts, feelings, desires.

A big part of what you do as a therapist now is even help kids entertain the idea that they could have their own ideas. And that even though the internet says something, it doesn't mean you have to agree with it. Because it's just like the Superbrat, they've been on it before they've been conscious, and so they don't even really know a different way. 

And they also, a lot of kids don't know about things that are more centered in the physical world or in their physical bodies, because they're mostly online. So I also like the way this show was exploring that. Like, there's a phrase in internet culture, it's like, "You've gotta go touch grass," right? 

[00:47:56] Brooke: Mm-hmm. 

[00:47:56] Kaykay: It means that you've gone so far- 

[00:47:58] Brooke: You have to go reconnect with the physical world. 

[00:48:01] Kaykay: Yes. Because your mind is not built to only live here, right? Your mind is also a body. You are an animal in addition to a thinking person. 

[00:48:11] Brooke: Yeah. 

[00:48:12] Kaykay: It explored all of this in a way that wasn't heavy handed, wasn't judgemental or anything. Just explored it! 

[00:48:20] Brooke: I'm thinking about it, the only time you see Derek outside of his living room, you know, he's this big social media star with millions of followers who spends all of his time in his living room, in front of a computer, just opening boxes. Literally just opening boxes and spouting out platitudes that are supposed to be profound, but are deeply stupid. 

Before he opens these boxes, he's like, "I was thinking, what if your hunger for fashion could feed others? Food for thought. Let's get started." And it's like, it's not though. It doesn't say anything. That's not, there's no thought there. It's just a, "Oh wow, hunger could mean two different things. Whoa." You know? So kind of like, what passes for profound in the social media world. 

But you only see him around other kids outside of the home at the very end, when he goes to Jessi's performance. It's showing that he's just, this kid is like trapped. This is something that other people can look at and envy, but it doesn't seem like he envies his life at all. Whereas Jessi is spiritually and emotionally richer, if not financially. 

[00:49:30] Kaykay: Yes! And think about, you know, all of the emotional and relational connections Jessi has in her life, through her family. She's got a sister, she's got a little brother, she's got two parents, she's got a whole slew of friends through The Baby-sitters Club. 

And the other kid, you know, he's got his dad, and he's on camera. It actually seems really isolating and hard. 

[00:49:54] Brooke: He has an actual manager that he doesn't have connections with-

[00:49:58] Kaykay: That we don't see. 

[00:49:59] Brooke: As opposed to Jessi's quote "manager" when Chaz is frustrated. 

[00:50:06] Kaykay: Oh! Oh! Okay, so I was doing like an end zone dance in this scene. I was so love with this fuckin' scene. 

[00:50:14] Brooke: That was like a raising the roof and swaying back and forth. Kaykay was like filling up the frame right now with joy. 

[00:50:21] Kaykay: Oh, I thought my smile was just gonna crack my head in two. 

[00:50:25] Brooke: So what are you so excited about? What happened, Kaykay, that brought you such joy? 

[00:50:30] Kaykay: Okay, so the part in the episode where Jessi just starts dancing, and sorry, what is the kid's name?

[00:50:37] Brooke: Derek. 

[00:50:37] Kaykay: Okay. Cuz as soon as you said John-Derek, that's all I could think. Derek. Okay. Derek, Derek, Derek. She gets Derek to start dancing and they eat ice cream instead of doing this video that Derek's dad wanted him to do. And when Chaz gets home, Derek's dad, Chaz, is pissed and kind of tries to like read Jessi.

[00:50:58] Brooke: He's like, "I'm gonna talk to your manager." 

[00:50:59] Kaykay: I thought he was talking to Derek because it was so out of pocket. I thought he was threatening to talk to Derek's manager. And I was like, what? You're talking to Jessi? And Jessi's manager is Kristy, President and CEO of Baby-sitters Club. And no one is surprised when she marches in and gently hands his ass to him. 

[00:51:17] Brooke: Shows up to their door. She's like, "I'm confronting this in person, person to person, in your space. Yes I will come into your space to have that conversation." 

[00:51:28] Kaykay: She's wearing some sort of like tweed jacket, it's great. And she just basically very professionally holds a hard boundary and is like, "I am not in the production assistant business, I'm in the babysitting business. And don't talk to my babysitters like that."

[00:51:45] Brooke: Yes! 

[00:51:45] Kaykay: And he is chastened and he actually appreciates it. And this is what leads him to the revelation of like, "Hmm, maybe I'm holding this too tightly." 

[00:51:57] Brooke: Maybe, except he ends up being like, "We're moving to LA to get closer to your agent," so it doesn't- 

[00:52:03] Kaykay: Sure, right. There's that. 

[00:52:04] Brooke: But in terms of like, will he speak to Jessi that way again? He will not.

[00:52:09] Kaykay: The answer is no. 

[00:52:11] Brooke: Kristy made it very clear that that's not gonna happen again. She was like, "I get it. I was raised by a single parent. But do not get short with my babysitters. Okay?" And she leans forward. She's got elbows on the table, leaning forward. The body language- 

[00:52:28] Kaykay: Yeah, she's a redhead. Watch out. Redheads are scrappy as fuck. 

[00:52:32] Brooke: That body language is, this is actually my house. You think this is your house, but in this moment, this is my house. So you listen to me. And then he's like, "Can I get you some ice cream, ma'am?" You know, it was great. It was great. Kristy is such a fucking badass. She's the best character. 

[00:52:50] Kaykay: Yeah, I mean, this show is just a dream for me because it's like everything I'd hoped for Kristy in the books, but that occasionally falls short. 

[00:52:58] Brooke: This show has Kristy as the central character. In the Stacey episode, Kristy's the only one that has a subplot. There really aren't any subplots for other characters in "Jessi and the Superbrat," but Kristy has the special guest appearance. Kristy is the one that comes in with like, I might not have a subplot, but I sure do have my own scene. And you will remember that. You know? Which I love. So Kristy is definitely the central character to the series, for sure, I think. 

[00:53:31] Kaykay: Definitely. 

[00:53:32] Brooke: There was a moment that both my husband and I, as we were watching, we turned to each other at the same time and we're like, "Oh my God, Kaykay lost her shit at this." Like, "Kaykay lost her shit." 

Kristy is having her friends block out anyone who's trying to bid at the silent auction for this bassinet that she wants to gift to her mom and Watson as a token after this gala, of like, she thinks her mom's pregnant. As like a, I'm okay with that. I'm happy about that. Look at how happy I am. Here is this gift to show you how happy I am. 

[00:54:03] Kaykay: Yeah, like a gesture. A gesture of how she's accepting and actually excited. 

[00:54:07] Brooke: Right. So she has Dawn blocking her mom and Watson from going around and seeing what's happening. Then her friends are going around making sure anyone who tries to bid on that bassinet gets directed to another thing to bid on instead. Did you notice what she grabbed when the Papadakis mom was over trying to bid on the bassinet? 

[00:54:30] Kaykay: She grabbed a drill! 

[00:54:30] Brooke: She grabbed a power tool, yes. 

[00:54:33] Kaykay: Oh, I died laughing and then I especially died laughing cuz she gives it to Dawn and then Dawn's like, "Oh yeah, it's this thing. It's a tool. I don't-" she barely knows what it is. And then it goes off in her hand, she's like, "Ah!" 

[00:54:46] Brooke: It was Mallory actually, which was like extra funny. 

[00:54:49] Kaykay: Oh, it was Mallory, right. Like, you gotta get Kristy to sell that. Come on. Kristy's gonna sell the drill, not Mallory. 

[00:54:55] Brooke: Right. But I just thought, I was like, oh, there's another- cuz just like in the book where I'm like, that word didn't need to be there, every choice is deliberate. You don't always know what the meaning is, why you're picking something, but you've picked something for a reason. You've included something for a reason. They could have had Kristy grab anything, but it's a power drill. 

[00:55:16] Kaykay: Yeah. And in an episode, in a television show, you have a group of writers that are really talking through everything.

[00:55:21] Brooke: Yes, yes. 

[00:55:22] Kaykay: Right? Like nothing gets put in there that hasn't been discussed or thought through. It's a 25 minute episode. 

[00:55:27] Brooke: Especially anything with a prop. Anything with a prop's discussed in detail. So that choice of a drill and that Kristy is the one who picks it up and hands it over. Where it's just like, get something else somebody would wanna bid on, and she's like, oh, I would wanna bid on this power tool. Of course! Everybody would wanna bid on the power tool, right? 

[00:55:47] Kaykay: I mean, it's the right choice. Look, I'm just gonna say of all the presents that are there. It's the best choice. 

[00:55:51] Brooke: Yeah, see? 

[00:55:53] Kaykay: Maybe I'm biased, but come on. Like, what can't you do with a little power drill like that?

[00:55:57] Brooke: It's- if you're gonna have any, like, it's probably, besides a hammer and a screwdriver, but even- 

[00:56:03] Kaykay: No! A Leatherman. Have her try to sell a Leatherman. 

[00:56:08] Brooke: Well, if we were really going to, it would be like the axe that you gift on the first anniversary, correct? 

[00:56:14] Kaykay: Right. Lesbian one year is axe. 

[00:56:17] Brooke: Right, right. But I just loved that little, like that was a wink and a nod to the Kristy is canonically queer camp, which is anybody that really understands both The Baby-sitters Club and queerness, who I would hope would be in that camp. So I just, I loved that nod. 

[00:56:36] Kaykay: Oh, you got this great, like, Cher voice. 

[00:56:38] Brooke: "Oh, hey..." Well, that's me channeling- 

[00:56:43] Kaykay: "If I could turn back time..." 

[00:56:45] Brooke: You know what? Maybe Cher is kind of like, how I see myself fitting into the queer community. Because like, I am not...

[00:56:52] Kaykay: Yeah. You're definitely a Cher character. You're Cher like. 

[00:56:55] Brooke: Thank you. Thank you. Where it's like, I need someone who's basically like a cis drag queen who like loves- 

[00:57:02] Kaykay: Oh, Cher is definitely a cis drag queen.

[00:57:04] Brooke: Yeah. So that's who I kind of, you know, resonate with. So maybe when I start talking about "canonically queer" and I feel uncomfortable because that's not my space to define, if I slip into Cher voice, then that can represent my affiliation with the community. Does that work? 

[00:57:21] Kaykay: Brilliant. 

[00:57:22] Brooke: Is that acceptable?

[00:57:22] Kaykay: Yes! 

[00:57:23] Brooke: We should maybe put out- 

[00:57:24] Kaykay: Just go whole hog. 

[00:57:25] Brooke: Go ask the, uh, go ask the committee if that's allowed. 

[00:57:29] Kaykay: You just have a wig, like next to you, just throw it on. It'll take a minute. You'll take your headphones off, put the wig on, but you know, we'll wait. 

[00:57:36] Brooke: Oh man. 

[00:57:37] Kaykay: Nice. Power drill, Cher. How did we get here? I don't care. I love it. 

[00:57:42] Brooke: "Power drill, Cher. How did we get here? I don't care." It's very close to a haiku. We're gonna get there. 

Do you have any other Modern Moments? We talked about quite a few of them, but was there anything else that jumped out at you? 

[00:57:56] Kaykay: Yeah, I think they all got covered. I had ableist bullies, kombucha and acupuncture, and also a TikTok influencer. 

[00:58:03] Brooke: Yeah. I loved that Kristy was waiting for a Groupon before she was gonna buy the tickets to a movie for the kids that they were gonna watch, because that's also very practical. 

[00:58:14] Kaykay: Yeah. It's very Kristy. 

[00:58:14] Brooke: She's gonna manage the budget. 

[00:58:15] Kaykay: Why pay full price? Come on.

[00:58:16] Brooke: Right, exactly. 

So just like in our last episode, which is covering the first two episodes of the summer vacation, how we decided to combine two episodes, see how the themes go throughout. We saw that the theme of the first two episode was really them fighting to connect with others and to get the approval of others.

In this one, it seems like we've got two episodes that are focused on trying to figure out what they can control, right? This need to control, the need to sort of live up to expectations, and the struggles that the girls have with that. And I think we get two really good lessons. 

I like how they explicitly state the lessons in these at the end where, you know, the first one it's like be kind to yourself. That was the lesson. Be kind to yourself, give yourself a little bit of breathing room. 

[00:59:07] Kaykay: A more beautiful lesson does not exist. 

[00:59:09] Brooke: Right. Just be kind to others and be kind to yourself. And then in the fourth episode it was, do what makes you happy. Tap into the love of what it is that you do. If there's anything that you're doing, you better love it. If you don't love it, don't do it. Especially when it's something that you're doing in your free time. 

You don't have to do it to impress anybody, you just need to do what makes you happy and do the things that you love. 

[00:59:32] Kaykay: Beautiful messages, beautifully put. 

[00:59:34] Brooke: And the next two that we're gonna cover should be very interesting. So this worked out great to be batching these episodes in the way that we did, because episodes five and six are "Mary Anne and the Great Romance" and "Dawn and the Wicked Stepsister." 

[00:59:49] Kaykay: Ooh, classics! 

[00:59:51] Brooke: We get the whole story of the coming together of Mary Anne and Dawn's families. I'll be very excited to get into that with you next time, Kaykay.

[01:00:03] Kaykay: Woo woo. 

[01:00:05] Brooke: But until then... 

[01:00:06] Kaykay: Just keep sittin'! [theme] It's fucking Chucky!